TThe Shawn Ryan Show
← All episodes
Johnnie Clark29 June 2026

#317 Johnnie Clark - Surviving One of the Deadliest Jobs During the Vietnam War

2Frameworks
14Insights

Frameworks in this episode

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Explainer· 1

Explainer1:57:30

When Severe Combat Fatigue Made All of Clark's Hair Fall Out

Clark describes difficulty fitting back into civilian life and says his hair fell out in a single night during a period of intense distress. The VA changed his diagnosis from mild to severe combat fatigue, a term he prefers to PTSD because he believes combat trauma should not be flattened into the same label as every other traumatic experience.

  • Clark says all of his hair fell out in one night and later grew back
  • The VA changed his diagnosis to severe combat fatigue
  • He felt socially separated from peers who were the same age
  • He says later reminders, including the reunion identification, could send him over the edge
  • He prefers the older term combat fatigue to PTSD

All my hair fell out one night and you know my wife's screaming and I'm freaking out

Johnnie Clark · 1:58:30

you don't fit in with all your friends because now you're 20 years older than them, even if you're the same age.

Johnnie Clark · 1:59:30
#combat-fatigue#veterans#trauma#homecoming

Story· 13

Story03:30

The Hostile Homecoming That Drove Clark to Write Guns Up

Clark recalls protesters throwing tomatoes and eggs as wounded Marines arrived at El Toro, followed by a bar displaying a sign that excluded Marines and an altercation at a bus station. Years later, after losing his mail and martial-arts jobs to a back injury, he began writing Guns Up to challenge what he believed Americans had been told about Marines in Vietnam and to preserve the truth for his children.

  • Protesters threw tomatoes and eggs at wounded Marines arriving at El Toro
  • Military police were present to keep the returning Marines away from the protesters
  • A bar displayed a sign saying Marines and dogs were not allowed
  • Clark says anger at public portrayals of Vietnam Marines motivated the memoir
  • He also wanted his children to know his account of what happened

they threw tomatoes at us, El Toro.

Johnnie Clark · 04:00

I wrote that book out of anger because it came from people saying, "You need to tell what the Marines were really doing in NOM."

Johnnie Clark · 08:00
#homecoming#vietnam-veterans#guns-up#memoir
Story14:00

Growing Up in a Garage and Dreaming of the Marine Corps at Five

Clark describes a childhood shaped by poverty, his father's disabling car wreck and death, and siblings being raised by different relatives because his mother could not support everyone. Despite living in a garage and later a Quonset hut, he remembers being happy and says a tough Marine uncle became the figure who inspired his ambition to join the Corps from age five.

  • His father was blind and crippled after a car wreck and died when Clark was about ten
  • The family lived on about $70 a month and spent time in a one-car garage
  • His mother placed several children with relatives because she could not feed the whole family
  • Salvation Army and old government food cans helped sustain them
  • A Marine uncle's uniform, toughness, and attention inspired Clark's childhood goal

we lived on 70 bucks a month. We lived in a garage for a long time

Johnnie Clark · 15:00

I wanted to be a Marine since I was 5 years old.

Johnnie Clark · 20:30
#childhood#poverty#family#marine-corps
Story1:10:00

Big Red's Last Stand Defending the Strategic Troy Bridge

Clark explains that Troy Bridge carried Highway One, a critical supply route, making it a target for North Vietnamese forces. During an attack by what he says were more than 400 troops, sappers destroyed the center span while Big Red kept firing from his bunker; Clark argues Big Red deserved far more recognition than the posthumous Bronze Star awarded decades later.

  • Highway One carried supplies through Vietnam, so destroying its bridges disrupted operations
  • Clark says more than 400 North Vietnamese troops attacked Troy Bridge
  • Sappers reached and destroyed the center span with explosives
  • Big Red continued firing while enemy forces concentrated on his bunker
  • A later campaign resulted in a posthumous Bronze Star roughly 30 years after his death

It was on Highway One, which is the most important route in Vietnam. All of our supplies went up and down Highway One.

Johnnie Clark · 1:10:30

Red didn't stop firing the whole time.

Johnnie Clark · 1:12:30
#troy-bridge#big-red#vietnam-war#valor
Story1:15:00

Three Marines Lay Still as 200 NVA Soldiers Walk Past Their Faces

On a three-man team intended to ambush small enemy squads threatening villages, Clark's group first saw only a few point men emerge from the jungle. More than 200 soldiers followed and passed close enough for the hidden Marines to smell them; the team endured insects without moving until an accidentally armed grenade exploded after the formation had passed.

  • The small teams were intended to intercept squads coercing villages for supplies
  • A few apparent targets turned out to be the point element for more than 200 troops
  • The three Marines stayed motionless while insects bit them and soldiers passed extremely close
  • Clark credits harsh boot-camp discipline with teaching them not to move
  • A teammate accidentally released the spoon on a grenade after the troops had gone, but nobody was wounded

It was two over 200 NVA came out and they walked so close to us. They walked I mean they could have stepped on us

Johnnie Clark · 1:19:00

If you moved, you're going to get everybody killed.

Johnnie Clark · 1:20:30
#ambush#discipline#nva#survival
Story1:25:30

The Young Rascals Song That Soundtracked Hand-to-Hand Combat

After roughly 17 days of repeated contact and little sleep, Clark drifted into a dream while guarding an exhausted unit on a mountain trail. The Young Rascals' In the Midnight Hour seemed to enter the dream, but it was playing from a North Vietnamese soldier's radio; after M14 rounds struck through Clark's poncho, the wounded soldier fell onto him and the two rolled downhill in a knife fight.

  • The unit had endured about 17 days of repeated contact and little sleep
  • Clark was fighting sleep while Chan took his rest shift
  • An enemy radio had tuned into Armed Forces Radio Network's midnight broadcast
  • Sugar Bear fired an M14 at soldiers moving down the trail
  • A wounded soldier landed on Clark, leaving no time to reach the machine gun or pistol

all of a sudden in the middle of freaking Cambodian mountains, lay ocean mountains, wherever the heck I was, I start hearing the young rascal…

Johnnie Clark · 1:31:00

too late to get to the machine gun, too late to get to the 45. I got to the KBAR.

Johnnie Clark · 1:32:00
#hand-to-hand-combat#music#young-rascals#vietnam-war
Story1:38:00

The Risky Medevac of a Wounded Enemy Woman Near the Ho Chi Minh Trail

After an ambush, Clark's group discovered that a wounded combatant in a stream was a young woman who remained alive. Despite being near the Ho Chi Minh Trail with only about 20 Marines, they treated her and called a large helicopter that struggled among the treetops to lift her out; Clark never learned whether she survived.

  • The Marines initially believed the wounded figure was a male soldier
  • Chan interpreted her repeated words as calling the Marines evil or devils
  • A corpsman treated her before the evacuation
  • The helicopter struck treetops while trying to hover over the small opening
  • Clark presents the rescue as a rebuttal to claims that Marines indiscriminately killed civilians

We risked all those Marines to get this wounded girl out of there.

Johnnie Clark · 1:44:30
#medevac#enemy-combatant#moral-injury#vietnam-war
Story1:45:00

The Mercy Killing Clark Says He Never Forgot

Clark recounts clearing a bunker where two bodies were recovered and a third person, a woman hidden beneath planks, was found with a catastrophic head injury. With no evacuation available during combat, Marines tried to end her suffering; Clark says the memory remained with him and became more vivid decades later when a former sergeant produced her identification at a reunion.

  • The woman had been hidden beneath wooden planks inside a grenade-blasted bunker
  • Clark describes her skull injury as visibly unsurvivable
  • An M16 shot did not immediately stop her breathing
  • Clark was told to use his .45
  • Decades later, Sergeant Stacy Watson showed Clark a copy of her detailed identification

But it doesn't matter. You never forget that.

Johnnie Clark · 1:47:00

you live with that, you know, you don't I don't forget that one.

Johnnie Clark · 1:48:30
#moral-injury#combat-trauma#mercy-killing#vietnam-war
Story2:00:30

The Graveyard Battle Where Terror, Courage, and Survival Collided

In Dodge City, Clark and Chan reconnoitered a graveyard by fire before Corporal Hudson's squad crossed into an ambush by what Clark says was a battalion. Clark exposed himself to engage machine-gun positions while Marines remained trapped among the graves; Sunny survived multiple wounds and near-drowning, while Unumtock—previously offered a route home because of overwhelming fear—was found dead with little visible injury.

  • Three fixed machine guns and a large enemy force opened fire on Marines in the graveyard
  • Clark moved onto a grave mound to fire above his own men and engage the enemy guns
  • An assistant gunner dragged Clark back after fire knocked his boots from under him
  • Sunny survived after enemy soldiers stripped his gear, moved him, and left him in rising monsoon water
  • Unumtock had rejected an offer to leave Vietnam, saying he would not go until all Marines went home
  • Clark says medics concluded Unumtock died of heart failure rather than his small shrapnel wound

I ain't going home till all the Marines go home.

Johnnie Clark quoting Unumtock · 2:03:30

he died of heart failure. He he literally died of heart failure.

Johnnie Clark · 2:28:00
#dodge-city#graveyard-battle#valor#combat-fear
Story1:50:00

How a Purple Heart License Plate Recovered Clark's Lost Silver Star

Clark says a Chinese rocket destroyed the records shack at An Hoa, wiping out documentation connected to his unit. Decades later, Pat McCra's attempt to obtain a Purple Heart license plate exposed the missing records, leading Gunnery Sergeant Portner and other witnesses to reconstruct Clark's Silver Star recommendation from the graveyard battle.

  • A 122mm rocket destroyed the records shack and killed the personnel inside
  • McCra's DD214 did not show the wound needed for a Purple Heart license plate
  • The resulting investigation identified the wider loss of unit records
  • Gunnery Sergeant Portner confirmed that he had recommended Clark for the Silver Star
  • Portner rewrote the account and died two weeks later
  • Clark says Big Red deserved greater recognition than he did

he's the reason I got the Silver Star, you know, because Mcder I mean Gunny Portner found out about it

Johnnie Clark · 1:56:30

He deserved a silver star way more than Johnny Clark. He deserved a freaking Medal of Honor.

Johnnie Clark · 1:57:00
#silver-star#military-records#recognition#veterans
Story2:49:30

The Graybeard Mountain Experience Clark Kept Private for Two Decades

During a difficult period, Clark followed his pastor's advice to spend time alone with God and stayed in a North Carolina cabin. On a hike up Graybeard Mountain, he says he was physically frozen mid-step, heard a voice tell him to walk farther, and reached a plaque bearing Psalm 121; a sequence of later appearances of the same verse convinced him the experience was real.

  • A pastor recommended going alone with a Bible and cutting off other distractions
  • Clark traveled alone to a cabin near Montreat and Black Mountain
  • He says he became unable to move while descending the mountain trail
  • He reports hearing a voice tell him to get up and walk farther
  • The trail led to a plaque quoting Psalm 121
  • The same verse then appeared in unexpected mail, his earlier book, another submitted book, and a church song

Johnny, get up. Johnny, I want you to walk a little further with me.

Johnnie Clark quoting the voice he heard · 3:03:30

I lift my eyes to the mountains. From where does my help come from? My help comes from the Lord who made heaven and earth.

Johnnie Clark quoting the plaque · 3:06:00
#faith#psalm-121#graybeard-mountain#testimony
Story3:17:00

Shawn Ryan's Sedona Experience and Return to Christian Faith

Ryan shares a parallel account from a dark period after the Afghanistan withdrawal, when he felt overwhelmed by suffering and moral confusion. During a Sedona trip, an unfamiliar Vietnam veteran addressed concerns Ryan says he had not spoken aloud, followed by several encounters and messages Ryan interpreted as confirmation that God had been present while he was looking for answers elsewhere.

  • Ryan describes an emotional breakdown on the flight to Sedona
  • He says he had been searching for peace through marijuana, crystals, and an alleged energy vortex
  • An unfamiliar veteran directly addressed concerns Ryan says had remained internal
  • Ryan's wife told him God had always been around him but he did not make time to let God in
  • A message from a deceased friend's daughter arrived during the same sequence of events
  • Ryan says the experience made him conclude that God was real and he had looked in the wrong places

God's always been around you. you just don't make time to let him in.

Shawn Ryan quoting his wife · 3:27:00

God is real. I've been looking for answers in all the wrong places.

Shawn Ryan · 3:32:00
#shawn-ryan#faith#sedona#testimony
Story3:47:00

Clark Rejected Random House's Condition and Kept Guns Up Profanity-Free

After four years of publisher rejections, Clark rewrote Guns Up to remove profanity because he felt unable to pray for publication while the manuscript conflicted with his convictions. Old magazine submissions surfaced immediately afterward, nine publishers expressed interest within a month, and Random House ultimately bought the book even after Clark refused its request to restore profanity.

  • Clark had covered his writing room with rejection notices over four years
  • A Bible verse about honoring God prompted a six-month profanity-free rewrite
  • Soldier of Fortune and other magazines independently found four-year-old submissions after the rewrite
  • Nine publishers wanted the manuscript within a month
  • Random House readers had not noticed the absence of profanity
  • Clark refused the editor's request to put profanity back, and the publisher bought the book anyway

I took all the language out of the book, rewrote the thing.

Johnnie Clark · 3:54:00

you two chances, Pam. Slim and none.

Johnnie Clark · 3:59:30
#guns-up#publishing#integrity#random-house
Story4:14:30

Clark Hit a Tannerite Jar From the Hip After 50 Years Away From an M60

A group of younger Marine machine gunners invited Clark to Pennsylvania to fire an M60 for the first time since 1968. Unable to see impacts without tracers, he aimed at a small red-labeled Tannerite jar roughly 150 yards away and says he detonated it from the hip with about a 20-round burst, while the younger gunners could not repeat the shot.

  • Clark had not fired an M60 since 1968
  • Younger Marines who had read his books organized the shoot
  • The range avoided tracers because of fire risk
  • A Marine placed a small Tannerite jar on a washing machine as a visible target
  • Clark rejected advice to use a bipod or scope and fired from the hip
  • He says his first burst detonated the jar and the other machine gunners could not repeat it

I haven't fired one in 50 years. And uh I opened about maybe a 20 round burst and it blew up

Johnnie Clark · 4:18:00

it was one of those fun moments where you get slaps on the back from young guys which felt good.

Johnnie Clark · 4:19:30
#m60#marksmanship#marine-gunners#tannerite